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Sunday, March 13, 2011

Replacing MR16 Halogen bulbs with LED equivalents

If you have read my other blogs about GU10 mains voltage halogen lighting, you will know that I have mostly replaced these bulbs with LED equivalents. they cost more, but last longer, are cooler and use a fraction of the energy. a halogen bulb is typically either 35 or 50 watts. most LED bulbs are 3 watts.

While the bulbs in my house are predominantly GU10 mains halogens, I do have a couple of MR16 bulbs. These are a different type of halogen that operate from a 12volt supply. I should mention at this point that I don't have any dimmer switches in my house. While some mains voltage GU10 LED bulbs are dimmable (always check first) I am informed that it is 12v MR16 dimmable LED's are difficult to make work reliably. My advice would be to replace the dimmer with a normal switch, contrary to popular belief , dimmed lighting is not saving energy.

MR16 bulbs have two pin connectors rather than the lugs found on GU10 bulbs. GU10's use a push and twist method of connecting to the socket. the MR16 simply push in place with metal clips also gripping the edge of the bin base.

They use a separate power supply , either a transformer (old type ) or a switch mode power supply(newer) to convert 250v AC mains to 12vDC. A transformer is a hefty box while most now use a switch Mode Supply, which can be made very cheaply. They are small light box, perhaps the size of two boxes of matches.

In the picture you can see one next to the vent hose in black. these transformers are often tucked away in the ceiling cavity. In my case the extract fan units were accessible , as the extract units vented up through the attic and out through dedicated tile vents via plastic hoses, the type used by tumble dryers

Because of the lower voltages, the MR16 bulbs are the type used in my shower fittings. You can see a common type of extract fan, with a central MR16 light.

Now I had tried LED MR16 equivalent bulbs in these fittings , but they either flashed briefly then went off or flashed repeatedly like a strobe light. Neither was ideal for showering.

The reason these LED 3 watts replacements didn't work is due to the power supply. the original power supply units fitted would only work with a minimum load of 20-30 watts. However the LED bulbs are only 3 watts. I have also read of people with a single power supply running a number of lights. When replacing with LED bulbs they found they had to keep at least one halogen in the circuit to keep the load high, or they would experience the strobing effect.


In my case these MR16 bulbs are fed from dedicated power supply units. the solution was to replace the power supplies with units designed for LED lighting. these can handle loads down to 1 watt. You need to ensure that the LED supply you choose can handle the correct load. In my case it's 3 watts from a single light. if you have a power supply driving multiple bulbs , which is normal too, you need to ensure the power supply has a maximum load sufficient for the total of the wattage of the bulbs i.e if you run 6 LED bulbs at 3 watts each , the power supply needs to have a maximum greater than 18 watts



in this picture you can see an LED driver or power supply, especially for LED MR16 replacement bulbs. Above it are two varieties of LED MR16 replacements, a Phillips Brand cost circa £20 at B&Q with 3 super-strong individual LED's and a Surface mount unit from SimplyLED for £11, who also supplied the driver for £8. Both provide good bright light. the SimplyLED is described as "warm white", meaning it has a slight yellow tint, they also do a "brilliant white" bulb which has a slightly bluish tint. This might be preferred by some, to my eyes fluorescent lights have a similar colour tint.



replacing the exiting transformers is relatively easy however
WARNING
THIS PROCEDURE INVOLVES MAINS ELECTRICITY.DO NOT UNDERTAKE THIS IF YOU ARE UNSURE . IF IN ANY DOUBT CONSULT A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN. ALWAYS TURN OFF THE MAINS BEFORE ATTEMPTING THIS WORK. NEVER RELY ON THE WALL SWITCH TO ISOLATE THE CIRCUIT WHILE DOING ANY WORK. ONCE THE MAINS IS TURNED OFF REMOVE THE EXISTING HALOGEN BULB FIRST.


Once you have unscrewed the cover you can see that there are 4 screw terminal connections,
one set of two for the 240v mains input , labelled L for LIVE (Brown) and N for Neutral (Blue)
the other for the 12vDC output. the output is polarised, so the transformer indicates positive (+ve) and negative (-ve) outputs, though neither of the bulbs had any polarity markings and both appeared to work connected either way.

I simply disconnected or cut the wires from the old transformer inputs and outputs, stripped and prepared the wires correctly, and connected to the new transformers. I double checked that no copper wire was visible, and that the screw terminals were not binding on the insulation. I then gently pulled each wire to see that the connections were sound. I then put the covers back on.


I also tried a different type of transformer on another light. This kind I purchased from ScrewFix for £12. exactly the same procedure except that the inputs and outputs were at opposite ends.


once I was sure of all the wiring, I put the new LED bulbs into their sockets before turning the mains back on. Had I left the original high wattage halogens in the light fittings, I might have damaged the new power supplies with the heavy loads. It was then a simple case checking the bulbs illuminated correctly from switch on, which they did




13 comments:

lights grow said...

It is very nice and good idea of LED light lamp.I like this halogen with LED lamp.It is so excellent idea.

Mr Ives said...

Many thanks lights grow, I think it is a good idea too.

decorative lights said...

Not bad idea its good to do that because the efficiency is there and also have a longer life than the traditional light bulb.. thanks

Ed said...

I'm considering this for our kitchen. Can you give a more detailed subjective description of the relative light levels of the different MR16 bulbs you tried, compared to each other and to the original halogens, what was the rated wattage of the halogens, and so on. I need to buy 6 bulbs, and £10-£20 each I need to be sure I'm getting the right ones, and this kind of information seems to be a quite closely guarded secret!

Mr Ives said...

Hi Ed,


It's very hard to give you 100% solid advice here as light levels can be quite subjective. If you are replacing MR16 bulbs 9as opposed to GU10) you may well also need to replace the transformers, as the Halogen 12v supplies will have a minimum load bigger than the total wattage of 6 LED bulbs 9as per blog).

In general terms I have found the LED equivalents slightly dimmer that halogens and with a more yellow tint. However for many applications (bathrooms) this is less important. I'm awaiting a 6watt GU10 bulb to try for a few applications in my kitchen which require a bright spot light beam.

I'd also add that suppliers such as http://www.simplyled.co.uk seem to have a no quibble money back policy. Why not try one, if you like it, get more, if not get a refund. Nothing to loose.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mr Ives
I notice you have them fitted in your shower extractor which i also want to do so i can do away with 35w halogen?
However i notice the side of the 20 x SMD bulb has open vent slats?
How does this cope with moisture in the shower? I have been trying to find a sealed glass lensed smd bulb but am struggling to find one?
Regards
Vic

Mr Ives said...

Thanks Vic, you raise a good point. many of the LED bulbs have cooling vents at the back. I don't know if these do present a problem in a moist atmosphere i.e a shower . The bulbs are in a vented tunnel and do get quite warm, so I would assume that any moisture would be vented away fairly quickly. If in doubt, if you look at the Philips MR16 bulbs I also show, they are self contained and have no vents, so perhaps these would be the best choice of MR16 in a damp environment

protasio said...

I've 1 question. I bought some led smd bulb to change my old halogen lamps.

I try to replace it directly, but i got very low light compared to halogen as you can see here.I noticed that the halogen lamp were single conected to this.

I know it is 11,5V output but the difference should matter to the 12V, but i tried to connect to a 15V laptop charger and it's fine.

My question is, it's because of the halogen transformers? I don't think is a load problem as I didn't have the any strobe, just very low light.

I cannot change the transformers as they are inaccessible over the ceiling (poor constructor), so what can i do?

By the way, great blog ;)

Mr Ives said...

Thanks Protasio,

Sorry that your LED bulbs are not working out. It's hard to say why they are significantly dimmer, and not always easy to determine from pictures. A few thoughts :

1) The SMD bulbs are effectively an array of point sources, each of which is considerably dimmer than a halogen but collectively they achieve roughly comparable brightness. It could be that with a halogen you are used to a very direct beamed style of light ? It's hard to tell from pictures I know. I have this type in my bathrooms and it's fine. however above work surfaces in my kitchen I still rely on a few halogens for the spot beam. There are also LED bulbs which use 3 super bright LED's, which I have used mostly through my house which are closer to the style of light from a regular halogen - I have used Interlux brand.

2) It could be voltage related. I'm not sure where you are located. I wonder why your MR16 bulbs are running on 11.5v whereas mine run on 12v. I can see from your transformer that it outputs 11.5. With at least one halogen bulb in circuit I would not expect to get strobing as the load is still comfortably within the load specification due to the halogen. Having one of these SMD bulbs alongside a halogen will always look different.

3) Those bulbs are really cheap. I know in the UK prices tend to be higher, but I'm paying, even on the internet around $20 per bulb. Your's might be perfectly fine, but I wonder if they are up to spec ?

I can't offer much more advice. Perhaps try a different brand/type ?

I have always returned bulbs I didn't like and get a refund or swapped for a different type

best wishes

Jonathan

Macgyver said...

Hi,

I have tried several of the eBay LED MR16 lamps and found that the 4w version which seem to be the most common (have an aluminum spiral back heat fin) seem the best and produce about an equivalent of 35w halogen. So for every two 50w halogens you would need to fit 3 LED 4W lamps. Still cheaper than a single 50W halogen. Also, they are more directional with about 38 degree beam. Best if fitted to a higher roof so the light spread is greater.
Dont get the 5w version. All they have done with these is add an extra LED (5 LED's instead of 4) but the little mini power supply inside is the same....they dont output as much light and buzz and whistle.
Using the 4W LED's on a 11.5v transformer will produce a noticeable less light output. ideally the voltage needs to be at least 12 to 12.5v.
I have mine connected through a double pole relay that switches between AC transformer 12v and a 12V DC solar panel/battery system and i get about 15% more light output from the 12V DC connection.
So far by replacing 20 of the 50W halogen lamps with the 4W LED versions (and disconnecting the transformers so that one single transformer runs 4-6 LED lamps depending on the room used - each transformer uses 10w in heat loss...)the quarterly power bill decreased by more than $50.
If anyone needs any more info on all of the R&D i have done so far i am glad to help.

Macgyver said...

Hi,

I have tried several of the eBay LED MR16 lamps and found that the 4w version which seem to be the most common (have an aluminum spiral back heat fin) seem the best and produce about an equivalent of 35w halogen. So for every two 50w halogens you would need to fit 3 LED 4W lamps. Still cheaper than a single 50W halogen. Also, they are more directional with about 38 degree beam. Best if fitted to a higher roof so the light spread is greater.
Dont get the 5w version. All they have done with these is add an extra LED (5 LED's instead of 4) but the little mini power supply inside is the same....they dont output as much light and buzz and whistle.
Using the 4W LED's on a 11.5v transformer will produce a noticeable less light output. ideally the voltage needs to be at least 12 to 12.5v.
I have mine connected through a double pole relay that switches between AC transformer 12v and a 12V DC solar panel/battery system and i get about 15% more light output from the 12V DC connection.
So far by replacing 20 of the 50W halogen lamps with the 4W LED versions (and disconnecting the transformers so that one single transformer runs 4-6 LED lamps depending on the room used - each transformer uses 10w in heat loss...)the quarterly power bill decreased by more than $50.
If anyone needs any more info on all of the R&D i have done so far i am glad to help.

Mr Ives said...

Thanks Macgyver,
You have clearly done a lot of work in this area.

I'm a bit confused as to why US MR16 bulbs are run at 11.5 volts rather than 12v by default ? As you say - they give 15% more light whn run at the higher value which is in spec.

I'm aware that in the US mains electricity is at 110 volts, so 11volts is a nice 1/10 of the mains.

In UK & Europe we run on 240-250V so 12v is a nice 1/20

This would make sense to me if we were still all using transformers based on primary/secondary winding rations, but I assume all the power supplies for MR16 (erroneously called transformers by me) are actually switched-mode devices, where winding ratios are not an issue ?

Macgyver said...

Hi,

Sorry, may be some confusion. I am in Australia and we also have 240v. I was referring to the secondary voltage of the AC transformers (240V to 12V AC). Some transformers are rated at 11.5V AC on the secondary and others are 12V AC.
There is a light output difference of about 15% between the two types, that is the 12V AC type give a slightly brighter output - as you may expect.
I have tries both the switch mode power supply type and the actual "transformer" type and you can run into issues here. The switch mode type output is usually a high frequency oscillation of around 50Khz at 12v AC. The issue here is the LED lamps cant transfer this high frequency as they are designed to work at 50/60Hz. The result is either no light output or in some cases just a pulsing light.
For this reason you need to purchase specific LED type switch mode power supplied which do not have a high frequency output. Or do as i do just use the old style power transformers. Yes, am aware they are not as efficient as the switch mode type but the difference of efficiency is at most about 6W and given the fact i take out of circuit several transformers as i need only one single transformer to run several 4W LED lamps - and - i have also gone from 50W halogens to LED lamps, the small difference in efficiency is insignificant in my books.
Let me know if you have any more Q's.